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brunoborges avatar charliegracie avatar gdams avatar grcevski avatar karianna avatar microsoftopensource avatar

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[Discussion] JVM Ergonomics

Discussion thread for the JEP proposal about Ergonomics Profiles.

The other solid proposal to address resource consumption in dedicated environments (e.g. containers) is Adaptable Heap Sizing, by Google. Please watch Jonathan Joo presentation to learn more about AHS.

Now, feel free to comment below your thoughts on both proposals.

Exposing explicit stack allocation

Hi,
I recently looked at the differences between the implementations of the fastest java and C# algorithms for the benchmarckgame:
The benchmarkgame is arguably the most popular comparative language microbenchmark and C# stands out by being by far the fastest GC based language on it.
There are many reasons for this (explicit SIMD, explicit inlining, use of PCRE, scoped manual memory management, value types, etc)

Among those comparative advantages, there is one kind of optimization that it can do that java cannot currently express: I talk about explicit stackallocation through either the stackalloc keyword for arrays or the Span collection.
(which you can see used here for example)
https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/program/revcomp-csharpcore-7.html
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.span-1?view=net-5.0

So In addition to the current version of this proposal, I make the case for exposing explicit stack allocation to the language (and not just the JVM), I also believe that it is complimentary with the incoming value types https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/401 and exposing such an optimization would enable overall a more performant java ecosystem which translate into a massive value proposition for the industry.

Note that rust has this famous library that offer a growable array that is allocated on the stack if small and if it grows beyond a certain size then it is moved on the heap. Such an optimization for JVM vectors could also make sense ?
https://github.com/servo/rust-smallvec

What do you think ? :)
@karianna

Thank YOU!

I would like to let you you know how grateful I am.
Such researchs work are making the world a better place and Microsoft by investing in java is becoming an even bigger player in the open source world!

Side note: C# is I believe a historic accident because at the time the owners of Java® refused microsoft contributions, then Microsoft reacted by creating a better Java, C#. While C# is a great language I believe that jetbrains has achieved an even better Java (Kotlin) and most importantly the size of the ecosystem (Apache is valued at 20 Billions+$ of human resources). Hence Microsoft by contributing again to Java (now that it is truly open source and that Oracle is welcoming) make totally sense by investing into what is the biggest, most production ready software ecosystem on earth.
I'm not saying that Microsoft should diminish its investment in C# and that Kotlin totally obscolete it. But C# would be far more relevant if it got compatible with the JVM! If C# was ported on the JVM then we would have the best of both worlds. So I'm advocating for this, (and for investment into Kotlin (one can dream)) end of side note.

I am a noob in GC technology and you already talk about it in the Readme but I would like to state the obvious: collaborate and anticipate required changes and possible synergies with project loom.

Finally, I see that Microsoft is porting the stack allocation optimization to both the JVM and coreclr / roslyn (a wonderful practice that I would like to see more). Now that Microsoft Edge contributes to chromium, I guess it would be a interesting addition to V8 to also implement to it stack allocation.

Feel free to close this "issue" and thanks for the hard work :)

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