Comments (1)
Close XMRsale / Close Monero Archive
Need more time to discuss / review the acceptXMR suggestion
Dispersing the remaining funds to other proposals (if suggestion(s) are rejected)
acceptXMR will benefit from likely users of it to review the milestones.
The people who have down voted the movie proposal have not changed their opinion: the film being freely available after is a 'nice to have' and has been assured.. possible screening at monerokon is being discussed
Logs
16:00:05 <plowsof11> Meeting time https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/791
16:00:23 <plowsof11> 2. Greetings
16:00:24 <plowsof11> hello
16:00:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Greetings
16:00:59 <geonic> hola
16:01:32 <Lovera[m]> Hola
16:01:40 <geonic> :)
16:01:44 <BusyBoredom[m]> Hey
16:02:16 <plowsof11> would anyone like to spam some community highlights / interesting things while everyone
rolls in
16:02:28 <Rucknium[m]> Hi
16:02:53 <blankpage[m]> Hello
16:02:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Most people get to stay in the bus now
16:03:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hey cancelling us now! I say
16:03:08 <plowsof11> ive got a bunch linked in the meeting issue (tx extra discussions.. [Feather Wallet
v2.30](https://featherwallet.org/changelog/) [p2pool
v3.0](https://github.com/SChernykh/p2pool/releases/tag/v3.0) / [GUPAX](https://gupax.io/) ... rpc pay in the
process of being removed
16:03:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Try*
16:03:24 <plowsof11> ofrnxmr you contacted nanopool or something 👀
16:03:34 <jwinterm> o/
16:03:40 <Rucknium[m]> People are discussing restricting tx_extra again: https://github.com/monero-
project/monero/issues/6668
16:03:40 <Rucknium[m]> It is at 141 comments now
16:04:21 <Rucknium[m]> tx_extra will be discussed at the next Monero Research Lab meeting
16:04:26 <plowsof11> the btc ordinal thing sparked it up again , interesting to follow with possible huge
changes in the future
16:04:57 <Lovera[m]> > <@rucknium:monero.social> People are discussing restricting tx_extra again:
https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/6668
16:04:57 <Lovera[m]> > It is at 141 comments now
16:04:57 <Lovera[m]> We need to remove it
16:05:04 <plowsof11> a nice draft of a crowd funding site from anarkiocrypto https://kuno.bitejo.com/ 👍️
16:05:06 <hinto[m]> hello
16:05:18 <plowsof11> selstas ccs porposal funded, and loveras almost! 🥳
16:06:52 <plowsof11> monerokon tickets? contact ajs "monerokon store is ready. if anyone wants to buy a ticket
and help us test the system before going live, send me a DM" thanks to digilol+siren+stnby for playing a huge
role in that
16:07:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Just post the darn link
16:07:40 <Siren[m]> please test the store first 😅
16:07:53 <Siren[m]> someone anyone
16:08:09 <Stnby[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Will you buy it?
16:08:16 <plowsof11> also ive been testing a PR from rbrunner/jberman to speed up wallet refresh times (handy
if some meany starts spamming our mempool .. decreases fetching mempool from a node by a huge %
https://github.com/rbrunner7/monero/pull/4
16:08:33 <monerobull[m]> Hi
16:09:07 <plowsof11> is it time to roll out the red carpet yet and jump into the ccs ideas
16:09:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Plowsof, that research may be totally skewed with the faster block templates
16:09:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not the txpool is consistently cleared out each block, instead of every 2+ blocks
16:09:39 <blankpage[m]> I'll buy a ticket if the link can be DMed to me, for testing
16:09:47 <plowsof11> i think it is unrelated, just 'give me your mempool sir'
16:09:53 <blankpage[m]> Forgot to put myself on the waiting list
16:10:06 <plowsof11> but yes could be
16:10:27 <plowsof11> ok
16:10:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> We were waiting for Monerobull. Good to go
16:10:38 <plowsof11> a. [Help an independent film featuring Monero get to the
Oscars™!](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/371)
16:10:44 <geonic> yay
16:10:56 <geonic> so help or no help? :p
16:11:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> People have comments or want to vote?
16:11:24 <plowsof11> just to clarify its "not breaking the rules" as per cores statement
https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/371#note_20653
16:12:19 <jwinterm> I wanna buy tix
16:12:22 <plowsof11> i suppose the main uestion is , those who havnt voted on the gitlab issue, do you want to
vote open/close? those who have downvoted, is there anything that would make you change your decision?
16:12:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stnby:
16:12:47 <monerobull[m]> plowsof11: Community Edition with permissive license
16:12:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Those of is in here voting, are known on GitLab
16:12:52 <plowsof11> nice jwinterm send pm to ajs_
16:13:12 <jwinterm> will do via matrix rn
16:13:48 <plowsof11> all of geonics movies are open after the fact iirc, its just the oscars run-up requires
it to be totes private
16:13:59 <geonic> true
16:14:01 <monerobull[m]> Many who vote yes on Gitlab have never participated in any other ccs stuff
16:14:01 <midipoet> has the option of showing the movie at a private MoneroKon screening been discussed?
16:14:38 <geonic> it's been offered. I don't think it's been discussed by the organizers
16:14:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> The current milestones are written as
16:14:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1. "Take me to the dance"
16:14:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2. "If I walk in the door, pay me foe second half"
16:14:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Both milestones are in advance, with no room for failure. (though not much can be done
about that considering the money is to be dished out to other partied)
16:15:01 <plowsof11> there will be an events meeting in 2 hours btw
16:15:08 <midipoet> MoneroKons and DefCons in the past have screened movies (and also paid for the
priviledge).
16:15:11 <ajs_[m]> there is a small cinema close by the monerokon venue
16:15:20 <ajs_[m]> kinda cool
16:15:22 <plowsof11> can we not just watch it on geonics phone
16:15:27 <geonic> lol
16:15:50 <geonic> just worry that ppl might be disappointed if they're expecting to see a "Monero movie"
16:16:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> My vote remains a no. Maybe split ccs up into
16:16:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Take me to the dance"
16:16:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> And
16:16:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Take me to the Oscars"
16:16:12 <monerobull[m]> As head of program for monerokon, we will watch it on geonics phone
16:16:32 <geonic> but if it's marketed correctly why not. I have a nice phone.
16:16:44 <BusyBoredom[m]> I don't really buy the advertising value, so I wont be contributing to it but I
don't feel strongly enough to vote to close it.
16:16:58 <midipoet> from my understanding people enjoyed the movie experience at the conferences/events,
regardless of content (though with expectation of quality)
16:17:18 <blankpage[m]> Isn't the whole point that nomination is guaranteed for a certain amount of bribes? So
really it is
16:17:18 <blankpage[m]> 1) pay bribe
16:17:18 <blankpage[m]> 2) marketing for hopefully winning
16:17:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2 isnt marketing
16:17:31 <hinto[m]> BusyBoredom: agreed
16:17:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2 is pay me for paying bribe
16:17:34 <jwinterm> lol plowsof11
16:17:53 <geonic> blankpage[m]: yeah, it's a pay-to-play system
16:17:55 <monerobull[m]> Regarding marketing: name the last Oscar winning short film you've heard about
16:18:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nwver
16:18:09 <Siren[m]> I vote close
16:18:31 <geonic> tbh there's not a lot of overlap between the people in this room and the general public
16:18:33 <plowsof11> a trailer (highlighting the monero parts) has been discussed. as it stands, many peoples
will be sad if it goes to funding, and if it does not go to funding. thats why i ask for how to change the nos
into a yes , if possible, so the proposor can try to please
16:19:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> I vote close and come back with a ccs that isnt misleading, and that offers value
16:19:10 <geonic> but most people can't name a movie that came out last year either, so there's that. maybe
top gun or avatar...
16:19:13 <blankpage[m]> My opinion is the same as BusyBoredom in this case
16:19:19 <plowsof11> a trailer + monerokon / topia screening has been mentioned
16:19:28 <monerobull[m]> GF can't contribute and community needs to be able to freely watch it after the
Oscars
16:19:28 <midipoet> why will people be sad if it goes to funding?
16:19:39 <midipoet> What's the outstanding issue?
16:19:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> monerobull[m]: We paid for 25k worth of viewings
16:19:58 <geonic> monerobull[m]: agree on both counts
16:20:16 <Lovera[m]> monerobull[m]: +1 agree here
16:20:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> midipoet: Because it sets terrible precedent
16:20:33 <geonic> ofrnxmr[m]: how is the CCS misleading?
16:20:39 <midipoet> ofrnxmr[m]: ok. so explain what precedent it sets?
16:20:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> 12k upfront for ventures that barely resemble anything remotely monero
16:21:04 <Siren[m]> midipoet: non-free media, offers no marketing value, realistically won't win an oscars but
maybe smaller festival awards
16:21:11 <plowsof11> so the GF can't contribute , ok, and it will be freely available like geonics other
movies ?
16:21:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> A ccs like this only works up front.. but for that, id expect more value coming from it
16:21:27 <monerobull[m]> Not on Vimeo
16:21:40 <Siren[m]> also this proposal have been pushed to people a lot
16:21:46 <Siren[m]> I don't like pushy-ness
16:21:47 <monerobull[m]> Only available on Vimeo is like it's not free 😆
16:21:56 <geonic> monerobull[m]: torrents ok?
16:22:00 <midipoet> ofrnxmr[m]: the boat we stuck a logo on, did represent Monero?
16:22:07 <Stnby[m]> Siren[m]: Conracted a bunch if people in private lmao
16:22:20 <blankpage[m]> Torrents ❤️
16:22:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> midipoet: It had a logo on it
16:22:30 <michaelizer[m]> Didn't he say it will be publicly available after the festivals?
16:22:39 <plowsof11> so if geonic adds to the ccs in big letters ' this will be freely available after oscar
run (not on vimeo but on odysee) - GF dont donate, im releasing a trailer ' lovera and monterobull will vote
yes?
16:22:43 <Stnby[m]> Please share pics of XMR sailboat
16:22:45 <midipoet> Siren[m]: it's free post-festival, marketing value is still debateable.
16:22:53 <Stnby[m]> I am interested
16:22:56 <plowsof11> oh and screening at monerokon / topia or just one ?
16:22:59 <midipoet> ofrnxmr[m]: the movie also has a logo in it
16:23:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> In the credits? Lol
16:23:18 <Siren[m]> midipoet: I don't care I can't watch it. The plot itself sounds very problematic.
16:23:37 <midipoet> Siren[m]: the plot? It's a movie. Entertainment
16:23:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> The logo on a boat / blimp is the main feature. Cmon now
16:23:46 <geonic> can't win them all. does the CCS have to literally please everyone in the community to move
forward?
16:23:49 <jwinterm> I don't see the issue for it going to funding at this point - if you think it's dumb then
just don't contribute, right?
16:23:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> midipoet: ITS ABOUT A KID DYING
16:23:52 <Siren[m]> midipoet: based on a dead child
16:24:06 <geonic> jwinterm: that was my understanding of crowdfunding too
16:24:10 <plowsof11> geonic no it doesnt have to please everyone, but if you pretend like yo ucare its
advantagous
16:24:19 <midipoet> ofrnxmr[m]: located where most sponsorships and affiliations go. Where else would you want
it? In the subtitles?
16:24:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> jwinterm @jwinterm:libera.chat: then we might as well stop voting in anything
16:24:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> And just let every ccs through
16:24:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> midipoet: In the movie
16:24:55 <jwinterm> ofrnxmr[m]: there is precedent for funding a monero logo on a sail boat sail in one race,
no?
16:24:59 <jwinterm> what's the diff?
16:25:03 <midipoet> ofrnxmr[m]: so now we don't want to allow it to go to funding, cause a person dies in the
movie, or because it's based on a sad story?
16:25:04 <Siren[m]> midipoet: I want "Monero" mentioned in the dialogue and that the fact that Monero is
digital should be implied. It is misleading otherwise.
16:25:16 <Stnby[m]> Why cant CCS just be funded via a private subaddress entirely via people that want to?
16:25:18 <plowsof11> wil it be freely available after the oscars (and not on vimeo) yes/no geonic
16:25:32 <monerobull[m]> You can't really change the movie at this point
16:25:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> jwinterm: That ccs was a shitstorm for years and if its going to continue to be than
were all wasting our time
16:25:45 <geonic> like other movies are freely available, yes
16:25:45 <Siren[m]> you expect people to watch through the end credits
16:25:52 <plowsof11> thanks
16:26:00 <jwinterm> maybe the people who contributed to it feel differently?
16:26:24 <plowsof11> and you are going to discuss with monero events team ... with there being a cinema "near"
the event OR on your phone
16:26:27 <geonic> I have no intention of hiding the movie in my closet :p
16:26:28 <Lovera[m]> jwinterm: We need to remember that there are “Monero whales” that they maybe donate even
not reading the proposal because they” trust “ in Monero community criteria to go funding…
16:26:34 <plowsof11> near the monerokon*
16:26:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> jwinterm: I mean
16:26:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> that the ccs system* is a shitstorm
16:26:50 <jwinterm> Lovera[m]: sounds like a them/whales problem :P
16:26:55 <midipoet> Lovera[m]: than we should embrace the whales, not act as their gatekeepers
16:27:01 <geonic> that would be so cool if we had a proper theater screening
16:27:01 <michaelizer[m]> Lovera[m]: I've always felt that this is actually the case
16:27:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> But they also pay scammers
16:27:23 <geonic> where Siren[m] and monerobull[m] can throw eggs at me
16:27:26 <monerobull[m]> midipoet: If they run out of good will at some point we will be struggling to fund
even the most important dev wirk
16:27:27 <Lovera[m]> jwinterm: Yep! 😅 just comment. Their Monero is not infinite ♾️
16:27:28 <geonic> :)
16:27:44 <monerobull[m]> * If they run out of good will at some point we will be struggling to fund even the
most important dev work
16:27:48 <midipoet> monerobull[m]: if they donate blindly, we cannot be blamed
16:27:54 <geonic> Lovera[m]: u sure? #inflationbug
16:27:55 <blankpage[m]> Surely these careless whales would at least have a preference between Devs/marketing
so I don't think it "sucks up" donations that would otherwise fund devs
16:27:59 <plowsof11> ok, there is an events meeting soon to get some thinking about some more things you can
add to the ccs to appease some people and increase sentiment
16:28:10 <Lovera[m]> geonic: Ouch
16:28:10 <monerobull[m]> midipoet: If we waste funds yes we can
16:28:10 <plowsof11> and such there fore visa vi yeah?
16:28:24 <geonic> omg ppl worried about other people's bags is too much
16:28:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ok so.
16:28:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> The way I see it
16:28:34 <michaelizer[m]> midipoet: morally, maybe
16:28:35 <geonic> if you're poor it's on you. don't donate.
16:29:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> There is no clear consensus
16:29:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Same yesses and nos as before
16:29:16 <Siren[m]> geonic: looks like you have very rich friends, why come to the general fund?
16:29:23 <geonic> general fund ?!?!?
16:29:30 <Siren[m]> aka CCS
16:29:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> CCS*
16:29:39 <plowsof11> monerobull and lovera liked it if the movie would be free after and possible screened at
a monerokon so theres that
16:29:41 <jwinterm> ccs and general fund are entirely separate things, no?
16:29:43 <midipoet> monerobull[m]: there have been plenty of much larger wastes of funds in the past and
probably will be in the future
16:29:47 <Siren[m]> sure call it CCS
16:29:51 <plowsof11> correct jwinterm, different departments
16:29:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> monerobull @monerobull:matrix.org: confirm
16:30:04 <plowsof11> ccs(tm) and general fund(llc)
16:30:08 <monerobull[m]> I'm at best neutral leaning no
16:30:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Are you voting yes if or no
16:30:09 <Lovera[m]> I vote yes if there adds that will be freely available after oscar + Monerokon 😎
16:30:21 <midipoet> Yeah people shoud not equate GF and CCS
16:30:22 <plowsof11> there ya go boom consensus achieved now lets move on
16:30:31 <plowsof11> that was easy
16:30:35 <Siren[m]> midipoet: Either way the question holds
16:30:38 <jwinterm> unless almighty lord and ruler luigi1111 decides to move some GF into CCS after
unilaterally deciding to move this to funding
16:30:48 <jwinterm> because tbh in my mind that's how this whole process works anyway lol
16:30:52 <Siren[m]> you're too pushy and call people poor gatekeepers for stating opinions
16:31:02 <geonic> Siren[m]: CCS has nothing to do with the general fund, except that the GF sometimes (rarely)
contributes to CCS proposals. maybe that explains your downvote?
16:31:03 <jwinterm> there is only one gatekeeper
16:31:08 <midipoet> Siren[m]: the question holds, but the GF=CCS is not sound logic
16:31:15 <jwinterm> his name starts with luigi111 and ends with 1
16:31:23 <geonic> lol
16:31:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> jwinterm: I thought it ends with w
16:31:34 <Siren[m]> midipoet: yes that has been a typo, now outta the way
16:31:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Right
16:31:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> So as I see it
16:31:45 <jwinterm> oh there's two of them :0
16:31:54 <Siren[m]> geonic: no that doesn't explain my downvote. my downvote is because of the proposal
itself.
16:32:07 <plowsof11> not a consensus achieved but there are things which geonic can add to make some people
happier
16:32:11 <geonic> sorry for being pushy. I'll just sit back, relax and let you gatekeep every proposal you
dislike
16:32:17 <blankpage[m]> Yes CCS is basically a ************ and these meetings are partially an opportunity
for the masses to express their grievances to the dictators.
16:32:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> 7/8 vote. Stalled or luigi and fire are tiebreakers
16:32:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> And core
16:32:30 <monerobull[m]> geonic: That's literally how this is supposed to go
16:32:54 <Siren[m]> REEEEE negative opinion on my proposal REEEE ur poor and u gatekeep every proposal
16:33:22 <xmrscott[m]> Not just the meetings, folk can leave comments on the proposals :)
16:33:35 <geonic> hi xmrscott[m], long time.
16:34:00 <plowsof11> so add some more nice promises to the proposal as discussed above and ask core about it ,
can we move on now
16:34:03 <Stnby[m]> This is a bit of a chaotic meeting
16:34:24 <geonic> plowsof11: will do, thank you!
16:34:34 <midipoet> Also comments on the reddit post are also valid. Usually, it's weighted voting with
precedence given to known/trusted psuedonyms.
16:34:35 <plowsof11> thanks ok lets breeze through
16:34:36 <plowsof11> d. [Computational work for OSPEAD parameterization](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-
project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/375)
16:34:38 <michaelizer[m]> Stnby[m]: right? xd
16:34:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Whoa whia
16:34:53 <BusyBoredom[m]> Yeah see if the deal can be sweetened and come back to it another time, I think this
has run its course
16:34:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Dont just slide off and leave a ness for 2 weeks
16:34:59 <blankpage[m]> Please move on
16:35:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think it needs to ve confirmed that we could bit come to consensus and that someone
needs to ve tiebreaker
16:35:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Whether core or whoever
16:35:16 <plowsof11> research proposal wants 100% upfront, ok, MRL have to discuss that, and would ideally
need core to escrow some fiat if required (like they will do for the bp++ ccs)
16:35:21 <monerobull[m]> CAN PEOPLE STOP SUBMITTING PROPOSALS 14 HOURS BEFORE A MEETING ON A FRIDAY
16:35:32 <Rucknium[m]> I don't think isthmus is here to answer questions about the proposal. But I'm here. I
cannot fully speak for isthmus.
16:35:52 <monerobull[m]> What are we supposed to do here? Say "everyone read it till next time, next"
16:35:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Well if were considering paying get
16:35:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Pay them
16:35:56 <michaelizer[m]> monerobull[m]: they could be overlooked until next week
16:35:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Geo*
16:35:59 <michaelizer[m]> as a rule
16:36:26 <blankpage[m]> I have not had time to read this proposal, and it seems that no one has had time to
comment or vote on gitlab.
16:36:38 <monerobull[m]> Ok, everyone read the thing, comment on Gitlab and we'll talk about it next time
16:36:42 <monerobull[m]> Next item
16:36:47 <plowsof11> yeah to soon to dicsus isthmus' ccs just some general logsitics to discuss about 100%
payment / or core to escrow the fiat
16:36:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Why even bring up "up front" if the other ccs that us perfectly acceptable and has
nothing to do with xmr is favorably on the table
16:37:23 <Lovera[m]> I don’t read that proposal… I hadn’t even realized that I was in the CCS.🤣
16:37:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wow. Eglish much. I hope DSM doesnt see that
16:37:27 <plowsof11> lets move on to [Resolve WIP list](https://github.com/plowsof/ccs-wip-list/issues)
16:37:38 <plowsof11> https://github.com/plowsof/ccs-wip-list/issues/1
16:37:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Xmrsale and accept xmr?
16:38:07 <blankpage[m]> Ideally isthmus will be around for the next meeting when proposal has been groked
16:38:12 <plowsof11> would anyone like to vote on deciding if xmrSal ccs should be closed?
16:38:13 <monerobull[m]> Move forward
16:38:15 <plowsof11> closed means, that if the proposer turned up tomorrow after close, theyre not getting any
monero from the ccs, it will be closed
16:38:31 <geonic> close and move the funds
16:38:44 <monerobull[m]> Agreed
16:39:00 <blankpage[m]> I think the suggester arrangement makes sense at it is a similar project with
potential for actual usefulness
16:39:02 <plowsof11> the suggestion for moving the funds is https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/374
16:39:10 <plowsof11> to entirely fund acceptxmr with the 30 xmr
16:39:22 <plowsof11> yes / no?
16:39:22 <BusyBoredom[m]> Happy to answer any questions about it
16:39:39 <Lovera[m]> Close and move the funds
16:39:42 <plowsof11> true blankpage i agree
16:39:57 <Lovera[m]> Move the funds to AcceptXMR
16:40:01 <Siren[m]> plowsof11: yes
16:40:31 <geonic> do eeet
16:40:38 <plowsof11> can we vote to close https://github.com/plowsof/ccs-wip-list/issues/2 also?
16:40:40 <blankpage[m]> I would like to see some input from people are likely users of AcceptXMR (on
compatibility/usefulness) as I am unlikely to use it in the near future
16:40:53 <plowsof11> archive monero - we got scammed and there is 0.2 xmr left
16:40:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is accept xmr still in proposal phase?
16:40:57 <plowsof11> close proposal and return 0.2 to the general fund yes/no?
16:41:10 <monerobull[m]> Kek
16:41:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> I agree to close and earmark the funds for accept xmr, still subject to approval of the
proposal......
16:41:36 <hinto[m]> plowsof: to be clear - we're deciding to redirect xmrsale funds towards AcceptXMR?
16:41:56 <plowsof11> xmrsale is to be closed. the funds are to be decided
16:42:01 <Rucknium[m]> From TFM: "An expiration date for the proposal. If it's not funded or finished by a
certain time, the funds can be released to other proposals or the General Fund.. This keeps things moving
along in a timely fashion."
16:42:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> If acceotxmr proposal is rejected, split funds for other ccs
16:42:08 <plowsof11> acceptxmr is the suggestion / in the idea stage
16:42:08 <blankpage[m]> Yes please recover funds from archive scam
16:42:09 <Rucknium[m]> xmrsale's proposal says "This proposal will expire 1 March, 2022."
16:42:32 <Rucknium[m]> The guideline on expiration dates does not say shall. It says can. So funds are not
necessarily re-allocated. But they can be.
16:42:43 <Lovera[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: +1
16:42:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes, so earmark and use to fund if proposal is accepted. Use for ormther ccs's if not
accepted
16:42:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Archive monero, donate it to loveras proposal
16:42:59 <plowsof11> acceptxmr is similar / promises to offer the same / better than the original xmrsale +
has 1 year of maintenance built in, for 30xmr
16:43:19 <plowsof11> from a known community member
16:43:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its still not been looked at as a proposal or voted on
16:44:08 <plowsof11> so for definite : xmrsale will be closed
16:44:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> Am I saying there is any reason it wont be? No. But lets not makes mistakes, even if
good people and no bad outcome
16:44:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Agreed
16:44:41 <plowsof11> archive will be closed
16:44:50 <monerobull[m]> Sure i vote same as ofrn
16:44:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Agreed
16:45:09 <Rucknium[m]> A major difference with the acceptxmr proposal is that no one votes with their
piconeros. Voting with piconeros has been a good check on a proposal's support in the community.
16:45:11 <monerobull[m]> Archive too
16:45:37 <Lovera[m]> I think as ofrnxmr says., if accepted to funds goes to AceptXMR if not, split it for
others CCs
16:46:16 <plowsof11> iirc funds have never been dispursed to another proposal before so this would be
monumental
16:46:37 <BusyBoredom[m]> I'm fine waiting for more people to look through the proposal, seems fair
16:46:43 <plowsof11> busyboredom is available to answer any questions / make adjustments on the proposal
16:47:36 <Rucknium[m]> Re-allocating to acceptxmr makes the most sense since it's closest in spirit to
xmrsale. TFM also says something like "anyone can pick up milestones if they aren't completed."
16:48:08 <ceetee[m]> . +1 for move fund to Standalone AcceptXMR
16:48:08 <ceetee[m]> . +1 for closing https://github.com/plowsof/ccs-wip-list/issues/2
16:48:20 <geonic> +1 for closing Archive Monero
16:48:38 <plowsof11> a bit more time needed for feedback / input on acceptxmr then , but definitely closing
Archive and xmrsale
16:48:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im voting archive monero gets donated to lovera ccs
16:48:54 <plowsof11> nice idea
16:49:09 <plowsof11> shall we jump into some work in progress ccs updates?
16:49:16 <plowsof11> does anyone want to see a pretty video clip
16:49:33 <monerobull[m]> Oh god
16:49:34 <Rucknium[m]> "If the proposer disappears, no problem, someone else can pick up from their last
milestone." <- exact language from TFM.
16:49:37 <jwinterm> I did a talk with some people at privacy and scaling explorations group yesterday on
reddit - maybe monero community would consider some way to do anonymous signaling on whether or not to advance
proposals to funding
16:49:51 <jwinterm> known community members get invited to group, anyway in group can anonymously signal on
proposals
16:49:52 <Siren[m]> plowsof11: new renders? :)
16:50:01 <jwinterm> not trying to go off on tangent, just a thought
16:50:17 <monerobull[m]> Eh
16:50:19 <hinto[m]> ring signature votes?
16:50:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> I like signing my name to my yes and no's
16:50:24 <plowsof11> the reason for moving to another project entirely imo is because xmrsale is a fork, which
has fel behind, and is bilt upon monero-wallet-rpc - for 30xmr someone has to resync with upstream, learn it,
and we end up with javascript wallet rpc trash
16:50:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Keeps you honest
16:50:33 <plowsof11> Animated videos proposal updates:
16:50:33 <jwinterm> https://appliedzkp.org/
16:50:34 <monerobull[m]> I like the reputational damage that comes with disliking a proposal
16:50:38 <plowsof11> [updated
clip](https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/10zi0wn/new_animated_videos_animation_example/)
16:50:42 <jwinterm> semaphor is the protocol, and there is one demo app now
16:50:43 <Siren[m]> jwinterm: you can have your proposal up on a webpage where people donate to your address
using Monero
16:50:52 <jwinterm> ZK, not ring sigs hinto[m]
16:50:57 <jwinterm> snarks
16:50:57 <plowsof11> - [updated story board](https://docdro.id/wkLPG5W)
16:51:12 <plowsof11> and - [script 1](https://gitlab.com/monero-videos/monero-adoption-animated-
videos/-/blob/main/Video%201%20Script%3A%20Why%20Use%20Monero%20for%20Commerce%3F.md)
16:51:27 <jwinterm> Siren[m]: that is what happens after something goes to funding tho right?
16:51:40 <plowsof11> alot to give feedback on at the moment, but they have been working on it and this is
their progress
16:51:49 <geonic> plowsof11: that's nice
16:51:53 <Siren[m]> jwinterm: yeah but not associated with CCS and the Monero community here
16:52:10 <jwinterm> well anyone can do that already and no one does that right?
16:52:15 <jwinterm> no one/very few ppl
16:52:20 <Siren[m]> jwinterm: no?
16:52:39 <Siren[m]> people do, all FOSS projects do that
16:52:43 <jwinterm> which CCS proposals that have been funded started out with that tactic?
16:52:53 <Siren[m]> it's how things are normally
16:53:01 <jwinterm> sure
16:53:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Moneroj.net
16:53:19 <jwinterm> I am just saying this process is messy and murky, and was making a suggestion about how to
possibly codify and proceduralize a bit more
16:53:23 <jwinterm> just a suggestion
16:53:25 <Siren[m]> atm.monero.is, moneropay
16:53:28 <Stnby[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: They got refused and started their own funding
16:53:34 <plowsof11> Endor Solopt Update (profitability.py) - https://github.com/mj-
xmr/SolOptXMR/issues/151#issuecomment-1426619628 (he has fixed the script to check for another node woohoo)
16:53:47 <jwinterm> like people vote on ccs proposal, then other people claim people who are voting are
sockpuppets, etc
16:53:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stnby[m]: ^^ yup and are doing Fkn awesone
16:53:52 <jwinterm> this would be route to avoid that
16:53:55 <geonic> more procedure = more easily gamed imo
16:53:59 <Stnby[m]> Stnby[m]: Best wallet for Monero ;)
16:54:01 <Siren[m]> jwinterm: one way to make it normal would be to only count the votes on gitlab + this
matrix room
16:54:21 <jwinterm> but then people are yelling about sockpuppet gitlab users
16:54:35 <plowsof11> valldrac of molly.im has a demo akp available - a sandbox monero wallet which is able to
open multiple monero wallets at once - i couldnt get it work work on my phone but have not tried the new one
16:54:35 <plowsof11> ideally a public version of the demo will be available
16:54:35 <Siren[m]> gitlab admins can verify sockpuppets
16:54:40 <jwinterm> this way only people invited to vote would be able to vote, and their vote would be
anonymous
16:54:48 <Siren[m]> they were obviously sockpuppets as well
16:54:55 <Siren[m]> we all could tell anyways
16:54:56 <geonic> jwinterm: who decides who gets invited?
16:55:03 <jwinterm> luigi1111:
16:55:06 <jwinterm> obvs
16:55:09 <geonic> fair
16:55:15 <Siren[m]> fair?
16:55:22 <Siren[m]> that'd be actual gatekeeping
16:55:22 <Stnby[m]> XD
16:55:25 <geonic> yeah, this is a ************ after all
16:55:25 <Siren[m]> yall are on meth
16:55:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or only "community members" can vote
16:55:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ignoring macsrocks
16:55:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> And other alts
16:55:32 <jwinterm> you guys called johnny mnemonic a sock puppet and the guy made like the third post on the
*bit*monero bitcointalk post
16:55:48 <geonic> lol
16:55:52 <plowsof11> donor or donator sirs?
16:56:01 <geonic> but he never participates on CCS proposals! must be a sock
16:56:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Siren[m]: They need to drink some
16:56:09 <geonic> donor obvs :)
16:56:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Luigi doesnt?!?!?!
16:56:17 <plowsof11> +1 for donor
16:56:22 <plowsof11> 0 for donator
16:56:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> He merged mj's bullshit
16:56:27 <jwinterm> lol
16:56:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> He does what we want, as long as we agree with him. Otherwise, he does what he wants
16:56:49 <geonic> hehe
16:57:07 <plowsof11> dont forget the monero events meeting in 1 hour btw
16:57:22 <Rucknium[m]> Do we know if it was the same Johnny Mnemonic? Where is the PGP signature?
16:57:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Any more WIP?
16:57:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Can we agree to donate the 0.2xmr to lovers before lovers us fully funded?
16:57:43 <Stnby[m]> I think CCS is fucked, wish there was a section at least to list independent projects
16:57:47 <jwinterm> sorry, didn't mean to cause digression, I just thought it was neat and would share, if you
want to listen to talk recording is here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10yyaot/reddit_talk_with_privacy_and_scaling_explorations/
16:57:59 <Siren[m]> I don't remember who the fuck but some people posted nearly identical comments, I don't
care who it is
16:58:03 <geonic> Stnby[m]: that's an interesting idea
16:58:16 <monerobull[m]> Stnby[m]: Ey it's better than what unis wap has for governance
16:58:16 <blankpage[m]> Codifying votes seems pointless when the votes are only a suggestion to the dictator
anyway. It is more an opportunity to flag up issues, through chats and comments
16:58:16 <monerobull[m]> * Ey it's better than what uniswap has for governance
16:58:22 <Siren[m]> geonic: monerodevs.org
16:58:23 <jwinterm> oh yea Siren[m] tbh I think that was vik, I do remember someone pointing that out lol
16:58:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> 0.2 from archiver to lovera
16:58:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yay or nay
16:58:35 <Stnby[m]> Stnby[m]: As CCS scams for example get higher budget than legit projects that do their own
funding
16:58:36 <geonic> yay!
16:58:37 <plowsof11> so in this meeting: close archive/xmrsale - wait for feedback on acceptxmr. geonics oscar
proposal at the least can benefit from adding some reassurances in the proposal that it'll be free, and to
discuss formally the possibility of a screening at monerokon in prague
16:58:43 <BusyBoredom[m]> 0.2 to lovera seems fine
16:59:01 <Siren[m]> jwinterm: nobody called him afaik a gatekeeper. I was just pointing out to the list of
unusual people who liked that proposal.
16:59:02 <plowsof11> 0.2 to lovera also fine
16:59:05 <geonic> free(ly available)
16:59:11 <Siren[m]> don't make shit up now
16:59:18 <jwinterm> someone pointed out that it seemed fairly obvious it was him
16:59:19 <plowsof11> free(tm)ly available
16:59:53 <Siren[m]> did plowsof receive his funds?
17:00:00 <plowsof11> 1 minute to continue fighting , AOB?
17:00:23 <Siren[m]> have they paid plowsof yet?
17:00:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Siren[m]: No
17:00:23 <Siren[m]> why?
17:00:25 <plowsof11> yes siren, i was paid for 2 milestones up to now, thank you all for shouting at me to
claim them
17:00:45 <Siren[m]> great finally
17:00:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Were busy tryin to pay Geo 12k up front
17:00:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Siren[m]: Thus is month 4
17:01:03 <BusyBoredom[m]> We like you plowsof, gotta make sure you're getting treated well 😤
17:01:03 <Siren[m]> ah fuck
17:01:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> He started before the ccs, and is going beyond the deadline
17:01:39 <plowsof11> if i claim the final milestone then i lose all my power
17:01:40 <blankpage[m]> monerodevs.org should perhaps be linked from the main website & reddit
17:01:49 <luigi1111> Excuse me I don't run the gf
17:01:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> If paid in full, he could ve volunteering. Thats fine. But he hasnt been
17:01:53 <plowsof11> monerodevs was redesigned by Siren BTW
17:01:53 <luigi1111> Also I'm on a boat
17:02:14 <nioc> be careful
17:02:19 <plowsof11> front end and backend totally new
17:02:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hahahahahahahahahaha luigi
17:02:53 <nioc> give isthmus whatever he wants
17:02:56 <plowsof11> as you should be luigi1111 , i hope you are enjoying calm waters
17:03:08 <Stnby[m]> On a private yacht with sgp :)
17:03:20 <nioc> aka Mitchell
17:03:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Uh.. boating accident
17:03:38 <Siren[m]> lost the keys to the GF
17:03:38 <Lovera[m]> luigi1111: 🤣 lol
17:03:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Pretty sure he meant stfu or I might crash 😂😂
17:03:39 <Siren[m]> in a boating accident
17:04:00 <jwinterm> I'm at a waterpark...watersliding accident?
17:04:05 <plowsof11> rucknium will be getting the C++ help they need from an expert team
17:04:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Need to read over proposal about why up front is necessary
17:04:55 <blankpage[m]> monerodevs does give prominence (and potentially more donations) to projects early in
the alphabetical order it seems
17:05:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> Otherwise, im probably voting yes
17:05:06 <Siren[m]> blankpage[m]: it will be shuffled
17:05:15 <plowsof11> its the same as bulletproofs ++ proposal - but in that case - core are going to convert
and custody the fiat
17:05:20 <Siren[m]> also the images will be rendered webp or webm
17:05:26 <nioc> ofrnxmr[m]: up front to avoid volatility
17:05:28 <plowsof11> i would like that to be the same for this research porposal if possible
17:05:35 <plowsof11> proposal
17:05:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ehhhh nah
17:05:47 <BusyBoredom[m]> Was gonna say, I picked a good name for my project looking at monerodevs ordering 😂
17:05:51 <Siren[m]> the issue is that the old backend had images as remote content (links), I need to write a
script to get all and convert them and so on
17:05:54 <geonic> core are converting and custodying fiat now?
17:06:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lmfao right
17:06:21 <BusyBoredom[m]> It looks great though, bit improvement over old monerodevs
17:06:36 <plowsof11> for monoerokon , and other research proposal / audits yes
17:06:59 <geonic> is that info published anywhere
17:07:04 <geonic> under what legal entity?
17:07:08 <nioc> I am sure that an agreement can be made to satisfy people for upfront payment
17:07:16 <plowsof11> digitalrenegades iirc
17:07:35 <nioc> no issue with the work actually getting done
17:07:37 <plowsof11> if you make a reddit thread again geonic you are banned
17:07:44 <geonic> :)
17:07:58 <geonic> I think DR is being used as a favor to the MoneroKon organizers. not in an official core
capacity
17:08:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> I am banned already and I never made a thread :(
17:08:06 <blankpage[m]> Core shouldn't have any official interaction with fiat IMO, just asking for trouble
17:08:22 <Siren[m]> geonic: DR is binaryfate, which is core
17:08:24 <plowsof11> geonic yes not official
17:08:28 <geonic> I was also banned on reddit. fun times
17:08:32 <plowsof11> an affiliate?
17:08:48 <geonic> Siren[m]: so when he goes to the grocery store, it is the Core Team buying groceries?
17:08:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Anyway
17:09:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Transparency report on Monday it seems
17:09:28 <geonic> surely he can operate as an individual too
17:09:34 <Siren[m]> geonic: possibly
17:09:50 <plowsof11> will follow up the molly im apk / monero thing for us all btw , i think that is the
meeting wrapped up now?
17:09:52 <jwinterm> liability can be a motherfucker
17:10:30 <monerobull[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I can unban you if you want
17:10:38 <geonic> plowsof11: can u confirm that statement please? that the Core TeamTM is converting and
custodying fiat on behalf of anyone?
17:10:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> Events meeting in 50 minutes
17:11:08 <plowsof11> thanks for all attending, and everyone with 100% attendance who is still in the running
for a gold sticker at the end of February
17:11:10 <Stnby[m]> Would be nice to have a 1st ticket sold by then
17:11:31 <plowsof11> geonic if you want an official statement contact DRR and ask them wtf theyre doing for
monerokon
17:11:38 <Siren[m]> anyways guys contact ajs_ and purchase a ticket or a t-shirt. if anything goes wrong, you
will be refunded or given a ticket manually so don't worry.
17:11:54 <geonic> no, that's clearly their own business. I've never seen Digital Renegades being conflated
with Core Team
17:11:54 <Siren[m]> (I think t-shirts are also available, but not sure)
17:12:22 <jwinterm> plowsof11: is sticker an nft?
17:12:22 <Siren[m]> s/guys/people/
17:12:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> The conflation is that the volitility risk was the proposers problem
17:12:41 <monerobull[m]> Physical bft
17:12:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> And up front ccs were taboo
17:12:47 <monerobull[m]> * Physical nft
17:12:47 <ceetee[m]> it's one of mb gold stickers
17:12:47 <Siren[m]> jwinterm: https://monerosupplies.com/product/reflective-anonymous-money/
17:13:02 <ceetee[m]> * of mb's gold
17:13:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> But as long as a core team member says up front us ok, and they will handle the
volitility, then things change.
17:13:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Did _core_ handle that? No, but they had a COI with allowing it
17:13:38 <jwinterm> oh nice
17:13:38 <geonic> what conflict of interest?
17:13:53 <geonic> because he offered to help? where's the conflict
17:14:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its been stated that the volatility risk comes with ccs
17:14:46 <geonic> DR's services are free of charge and I trust the MoneroKon organizers to keep full
accounting
17:14:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Unless youre friends, then you can get milestone 0's and fiat conversion
17:14:54 <plowsof11> in the past, the general fund has donated a certain % to account for volatility to code
audits , im trying to find the specific proposal
17:15:31 <plowsof11> https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/clsag-audit-take2.html
17:15:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Im not against milestone 0's. Im against the "for me but not thee" attitude)
17:15:40 <plowsof11> so fiat is not mentioned here, so im wrong in saying that
17:16:13 <plowsof11> core are not custodying fiat
17:16:18 <geonic> ty
17:17:11 <plowsof11> they only custody gold coins with the letter M engraved
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Related Issues (20)
- MoneroKon 2023 Planning Meeting: Saturday 18th March 2023 @ 18:00 UTC
- MoneroKon 2023 Planning Meeting: Saturday 25th March 2023 @ 18:00 UTC HOT 2
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- Seraphis wallet workgroup meeting #18 - Monday, 2023-03-27, 18:00 UTC HOT 1
- MoneroKon 2023 Planning Meeting: Saturday 1st April 2023 @ 18:00 UTC
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- Monero Research Lab Meeting - Wed 05 April 2023, 17:00 UTC HOT 1
- Seraphis wallet workgroup meeting #20 - Monday, 2023-04-10, 18:00 UTC HOT 1
- Monero Community Workgroup Meeting: Saturday 15th April 2023 @ 16:00 UTC HOT 1
- Monero Research Lab Meeting - Wed 12 April 2023, 17:00 UTC HOT 1
- Seraphis wallet workgroup meeting #21 - Monday, 2023-04-17, 18:00 UTC HOT 1
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- Monero Community Workgroup Meeting: Saturday 29th April 2023 @ 15:00 UTC HOT 1
- Monero Research Lab Meeting - Wed 19 April 2023, 17:00 UTC HOT 1
- Monero Research Lab Meeting - Wed 26 April 2023, 17:00 UTC HOT 1
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