confusion over the ocid name? about cri-o HOT 38 CLOSED

I sort of reject the notion that OCI people will forbid something like
"cri-oci" or similar. I'd rather wait for that to settle (or do it now
rename it again later) than choose a dumb name now.

cri-oci sets precendent for cri-rkt, cri-hyper, cri-docker, cri-lmctfy, etc.

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 5:36 PM, Tim Hockin [email protected] wrote:

the-project-soon-to-be-formerly-known-as-ocid is not a generic CRI daemon

• it is a SPECIFIC implementation of CRI for OCI runtimes.

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Antonio Murdaca <[email protected]

wrote:

just crid?

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No malice was assumed :)

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Mrunal Patel [email protected]
wrote:

The intention wasn't to mislead but to have a simple boring name hence
ocid seemed apt. We can rename it to something different.

cc: @rhatdan https://github.com/rhatdan @smarterclayton
https://github.com/smarterclayton

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@thockin I don't like that notion either, working with OCI folks to DTRT

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I couldn't find a link to the opencontainers trademark. Though it doesn't
seem terribly confusing to me.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016, 17:05 sarahnovotny [email protected] wrote:

After reading the updated repo description, I believe i understand the
intent of this work but, am concerned that naming it only ocid will be both
confusing and a possible infringement on the OCI trademarks. I see the
following options:

• find some examples of cases where this sort of naming based on a
  standard is common even when the standard offers formal certification
  (which is in the works now with the OCI).
• go out to the OCI Trademark Board for clarification on their AUP for
  the name. - i.e. can we name this repo/tooling ocid but not claim "OCI
  Certified" or "OCI Compliant" without going through their (still nacent)
  certification process?
• rename

Thoughts, dear maintainers? (@mrunalp https://github.com/mrunalp @runcom
https://github.com/runcom @yujuhong https://github.com/yujuhong
@cyphar https://github.com/cyphar @mikebrow
https://github.com/mikebrow )

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@sarahnovotny I will reach out to the OCI Trademark Board to see what they think. We aren't claiming that this project is OCI compliant but rather that it makes use of OCI compliant runtimes. I do see your concern and can modify to take out "compliant" from the README till runc is formally verified as compliant, though. Thanks!

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thanks, @mrunalp and @vbatts.

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🐿️🐧

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016, 18:24 sarahnovotny [email protected] wrote:

thanks, @mrunalp https://github.com/mrunalp and @vbatts
https://github.com/vbatts.

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Okay, this will be discussed in the next OCI TB meeting later this week. I will update the feedback that I get from the OCI TB here. Thanks!

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I know you guys don't control what The New Stack writes, but surprising, but maybe not based on the name, there is now a story claiming this is a project and intention of the OCI itself: http://thenewstack.io/oci-building-way-kubernetes-run-containers-without-docker/

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Yeah, I agree the name is somewhat misleading. So is "CRI". Neither CRI nor OCID (seemingly) aim to be universal things. CRI is kubelet's internal API for abstracting runtimes out. OCID is an implementation of CRI. I know the docs say this but it is maybe not clear enough?

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@philips mentioned a few names for the rkt implementation of CRI. One popular option is rk8s (and dk8s for docker). If we follow the same convention, maybe ocid can be renamed as ok8s?

Not sure if a better name would've actually prevented stories stories like http://thenewstack.io/oci-building-way-kubernetes-run-containers-without-docker/

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The intention wasn't to mislead but to have a simple boring name hence ocid seemed apt. We can rename it to something different.

cc: @rhatdan @smarterclayton

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nfsd :^)

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@mrunalp I'll followup with you and the community from an OCI perspective on this issue next week after deliberation but we don't have formal trademark guidelines in OCI outside of what is provided by the LF default (https://www.linuxfoundation.org/trademark-usage).

We are also in the process of developing an OCI certification program which will add some clarity in terms of how we expect the wider community to use OCI related marks. I would definitely not refer to anything being OCI certified or compliant in the time being.

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Good points.. all. A rename is probably a good idea for the reasons @sarahnovotny pointed out. Just a point of reference Docker used the name containerd for a similar project that they needed to build to "layer" in runc.

In the ocid case the daemon is supporting commands to meet Kube's interface for managing kube pods, containers and images.

Possible names (trying to avoid using oci in the name for this set of components):
containerk
runp
runkube
kubepd
kubercd
kuber
kcrid

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@caniszczyk Thanks for the update. Meanwhile I have merged in #14 that removes the word compliant from the README.

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Thanks for the suggestions @mikebrow

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if this is just a CRI implementation, can we just go with boring names like
"oci-cri"

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Mrunal Patel [email protected]
wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions @mikebrow https://github.com/mikebrow

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A few more instances of daemons named after the protocol standard - httpd, sshd, kerberosd,

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naming the program is different than the project. https => apache, sshd => openssh. I don't know much about Kerberos.

Naming is hard, let's not be clever.

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Actually I wanted to call it OCD. But that has other connotations.

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I sort of like kcrid easy to type not memorable... to the point :-) Also like containerk or containerkd as a nod to the docker guys to explain the relationship of this interface within kubernetes. To @thockin's idea to call it oci-cri, oci is what we're trying to avoid putting in the name. Maybe runc-crid?

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just crid?

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I googled crid and the result made me want to leave it out of my list

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I like:

kuber
containerk

I'm happy to change the name of the repo as soon as we have consensus.

@thockin and @mikebrow, i'd love for us to avoid the use of OCI or runc without clear trademark fair use guidelines (which based on the conversations this morning on the OCI Trademark Board call could be O(weeks) out).

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If it isn't against fair use, then is this issue because this project is in
the kubernetes-incubator ?
I realize there is confusion, but it seems like it can be clarified
adequately in the docs. It is a daemon that uses OCI components. That is
pretty clear.

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 16:50 sarahnovotny [email protected] wrote:

I like:

kuber
containerk

I'm happy to change the name of the repo as soon as we have consensus.

@thockin https://github.com/thockin and @mikebrow
https://github.com/mikebrow, i'd love for us to avoid the use of OCI
or runc without clear trademark fair use guidelines (which based on the
conversations this morning on the OCI Trademark Board call could be
O(weeks) out).

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no... the issue is that OCI TMB and OCI Certification Working Group aren't far enough along to make a clear decision if this falls in or out of fair use. As a member of of both groups (TMB and Cert WG), we appreciate your patience (and hard work) as we get closer the 1.0 of all the specs and finalize a certification program and the resultant TM fair use guidelines.

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Right on

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 17:00 sarahnovotny [email protected] wrote:

no... the issue is that OCI TMB and OCI Certification Working Group aren't
far enough along to make a clear decision if this falls in or out of fair
use. As a member of of both groups (TMB and Cert WG), we appreciate your
patience (and hard work) as we get closer the 1.0 of all the specs and
finalize a certification program and the resultant TM fair use guidelines.

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(Chiming in from the perspective of someone that had coincidentally recently asked for more clarity around acceptable uses of the OCI's marks)

@sarahnovotny's suggestion of containerk is interesting, as it seems like that could readily become a default convention for Kubernetes CRI backend daemons (rktk, nspawnk, etc). When I first heard the ocid name I wondered why it was being published as a kubernetes-incubator project, and it was only in reading this thread that I properly understood that it wasn't intended to be a standalone daemon, but specifically a Kubernetes container management plugin based on the OCI interoperability standards.

So regardless of the OCI's official perspective, there may be value in adjusting the name to more clearly convey the Kubernetes connection vs being a utility for working with the OCI formats independently of any particular orchestrator.

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the-project-soon-to-be-formerly-known-as-ocid is not a generic CRI daemon -
it is a SPECIFIC implementation of CRI for OCI runtimes.

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Antonio Murdaca [email protected]
wrote:

just crid?

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@chriswright and @thockin per an afternoon conversation with a subset of the OCI Trademark Board, their preference would be for us to follow the umbrella Linux Foundation Trademark Guidelines until the full group meets and decides OCI Certification plan and Trademark usage guidelines. Both of which are longer term goals.

There were no objections to cri-o or ocri as names for this incubated project.

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I'm going to rename the repo to cri-o and you all can clean up the mess.

On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 3:06 PM, sarahnovotny [email protected]
wrote:

@chriswright https://github.com/chriswright and @thockin
https://github.com/thockin per an afternoon conversation with a subset
of the OCI Trademark Board, their preference would be for us to follow the
umbrella Linux Foundation Trademark Guidelines
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/trademark-usage until the full group
meets and decides OCI Certification plan and Trademark usage guidelines.
Both of which are longer term goals.

There were no objections to cri-o or ocri as names for this incubated
project.

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DONE

On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Tim Hockin [email protected]
wrote:

I'm going to rename the repo to cri-o and you all can clean up the mess.

On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 3:06 PM, sarahnovotny [email protected]
wrote:

@chriswright https://github.com/chriswright and @thockin
https://github.com/thockin per an afternoon conversation with a subset
of the OCI Trademark Board, their preference would be for us to follow
the
umbrella Linux Foundation Trademark Guidelines
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/trademark-usage until the full group
meets and decides OCI Certification plan and Trademark usage guidelines.
Both of which are longer term goals.

There were no objections to cri-o or ocri as names for this incubated
project.

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@thockin Thanks!
@vishh Looks like we need to re-enable travis. Could you do that?

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Cool name (pun intended :-)

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punny

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 9:11 AM Mike Brown [email protected] wrote:

Cool name (pun intended :-)

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Should this issue be closed. Although not real happy with cri-o for a name.

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you are welcome to find a new name at your own pace, now that the firedrill is over. :)

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