Logging configuration about defopt HOT 14 CLOSED

On Py3 at least, I think 1) is redundant with the lastResort handler (https://docs.python.org/3/library/logging.html#logging.lastResort). Doesn't mean we can't add it on Py2 (but would defer to @evanunderscore on that as I don't really care about Py2 :-)).
Not sure what 2) provides given that it is basically just as easy to add the corresponding calls immediately before the call to defopt.run(). (As defopt itself doesn't use logging, any logs would come from the passed-in functions.)
For 3) I personally like using environment variables and https://coloredlogs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/#environment-variables, which gives a much nicer and more general solution (although it doesn't allow logging to a file, but that can generally be solved using redirection (obviously, not if you're already writing to stderr intentionally yourself)).

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Thanks @anntzer for the reply. I'm on Py3 so I share your lack of concern about Py2. On point 2) I'd only say that if the defaults for defopt run() were such that no logging config would be required to get basic stderr logging then it would eliminate some boilerplate from defopt apps. Similarly for 3) it could be boilerplate free, and IMHO CLI arguments are clearer and easier than env vars because they are explicit and can't be inadvertently set.

That said, coloredlogs seems to do most of what I need and it is better than any logging library that I'd evaluated (there are dozens on PyPI). I do want the option of log files with rotation which it doesn't seem to provide, but that's involved enough that explicitly coding it is probably better anyway.

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On point 2) I'd only say that if the defaults for defopt run() were such that no logging config would be required to get basic stderr logging then it would eliminate some boilerplate from defopt apps.

Well, the stdlib default is to log warnings (and higher) via the lastresorthandler.
Requesting that defopt incorporates logging support just so that you can write import defopt, logging; defopt.run(..., log_level=logging....) instead of import defopt, logging; logging.basicConfig(logLevel=logging....); defopt.run(...) seems a bit rich, doesn't it? :-)

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My real interest in point 2) was writing only defopt.run(func) and getting sane logging with zero additional boilerplate code. I view logging as a basic thing that should be in all applications, so it seems to me that it would not be a bad thing if defopt put it there by default. Certainly writing one additional line every time I write a defopt CLI utility won't kill me, but it doesn't do me any great service either. Built-in logging setup would be one more small way in which defopt can make writing proper CLI utilities easier.

My real interest, though, is in point 3). I programmed in Java for years and I liked the ability to adjust logging levels from the CLI. I have not yet found a Python logging library that supports that. The one you pointed me to, coloredlogs, does support setting the level from env vars, which is a close second, and even that seems to be a rare capability for Python logging libraries. The stdlib logging.config allows for setting levels w/o modifying the Python code, but setting it up with proper defaults adds a lot of extra effort to the beautiful simplicity of defopt and it still leaves you modifying a file to adjust logging.

By pointing me to coloredlogs you have given me a reasonable solution for my immediate needs, and I thank you for that. I would only suggest that you and @evanunderscore think about whether logging is something that should be in every CLI app and, if so, whether defopt should somehow support it.

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I think one of us (possibly me) is missing something fundamental on 2): AFAICT, you need zero configuration to get logging (on Py3):

$ python -c 'import logging; logging.warning("foo")'
WARNING:root:foo

(having temporarily disabled coloredlogs)
So I don't understand what exactly you want defopt to do here.

As for 3), I actually wrote the COLOREDLOGS_AUTO_INSTALL feature (the other environment variables were already present before) so obviously I'm a bit biased there :-) I guess a possible design for what you're looking for would be

defopt.run(..., log_args_prefix="foo-")

and redirect any --foo-* kwargs to logging.basicConfig (which right now has signature *args, **kwargs and no annotations but an shim typed signature can easily be provided).
I think it's important to have an explicit prefix because I don't think I'd be happy to have any risk of collision with parameters of the actual function I'm calling.

PRs are always welcome...

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One of the key reasons that I use defopt is so that there is excellent built-in help with the -h argument. Would the --foo-... solution that you propose above provide help for the use of logging configuration arguments?

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On 2), I was unaware that Py3 had fixed the dreaded "No handler found..." error, so thank you for educating me on that. If defopt aims to support Py2 then it may still be worthwhile to add a NullHandler when needed. Alternatively leaving it out could be viewed as a feature which encourages people to switch to Py3 :^)

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One of the key reasons that I use defopt is so that there is excellent built-in help with the -h argument. Would the --foo-... solution that you propose above provide help for the use of logging configuration arguments?

yes. that's provided by argparse (the underlying stdlib parser)

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I think I see what you are getting at with an log_args_prefix="foo-"' argument to defopt.run().

One question I have is about the arg prefix. I would expect the log args to be optional keyword args. For those, defopt expects that the 1st character be unique in order to get unambiguous short args. How would that work with an arg prefix? One possibility seems to be the short={...} arg for run(), but that's pretty tedious. If there was a way to make arguments long-only then that could be the default for the log args and short= could be used by anyone who really wanted short alternatives.

It does appear that it would require a wrapper to logging.basicConfig because the docstring for basicConfig is not formatted properly for defopt. It also appears that many basicConfig args are not suitable for use from a CLI. Even for the most basic one, log level, some work seems to be required to represent it nicely as a choice by converting the keys in the logging._nameToLevel dict into an enum.

Surfacing logging.basicConfig in some fashion with CLI args does seem like a very good approach to what I was seeking in my item 3).

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Given that the support for basicConfig would have to be hardcoded anyways, we can also hardcode whatever short args we want for them (by default)...

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My real interest, though, is in point 3). I programmed in Java for years and I liked the ability to adjust logging levels from the CLI. I have not yet found a Python logging library that supports that.

I know begins does it: https://begins.readthedocs.io/en/latest/guide.html#logging

Doesn't mean we can't add it on Py2 (but would defer to @evanunderscore on that as I don't really care about Py2 :-)).

I no longer personally use Python 2 for anything, so I'm not overly inclined to make any more concessions for it unless someone asks for them specifically.

I don't have any time to work on this feature myself but you're welcome to keep discussing it and submit a PR if you'd like. Thanks for all the discussion so far.

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Thanks for looking in on the discussion and for the pointer to begins. I'll look at what begins does and see if I can formulate something for defopt. I tried coloredlogs and found that the granularity was too coarse. To make it really useful really requires an ability like Java's to control logging at the individual logger level.

Thanks for creating defopt. I use it all the time. It's made creating CLI utils a pleasure and it's trained me to always make nice docstrings.

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Feel free to post ideas here and I'll weigh in when I can. I'm glad to hear you've been enjoying defopt!

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I'm going to close this as inactive and because I think coloredlogs-style environment variables work well enough (well, at least for me...), but would still be willing to review a PR implementing log_args_prefix or some variant thereof.

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